Monday, January 12, 2009

Interview with Curt Christianson (Part II)

This is part II of the interview with Curt Christianson. For Part I go here.

Part 2: Some techtalk on mainly ASP.NET webproject-architecture mixed with a bit of AJAX and WPF

Me: Let me ask you some general questions about building a webapplication. What is your advise on setting up the layers of a webapplication. In the webapplication I'm currently working on we chose a not so standard architecture I guess. We have multiple "modules", which are folders in practice. In the root of these modules we hold our aspx pages. For each module we have three folders: BLL, DAL and Controls. In our BLL we hold our objects, some logic, ... In our DAL we stock our typed datasets based on stored procedures. We divided our pages into Controls, because our pages are pretty big. We access all of our datamethods in the controls, using ObjectDataSources based on the typed datasets. We try to make as much use as possible from the ObjectDataSources using the designer, some custom things are done in code-behind. But we found out that this architecture is a hassle. It doesn't give a much as control as we'd like and debugging/logging really is a pain in the ass. A problem is that we can't use the designer as much as we want, because we needed to add more functionality/business logic than the designer allows us. With the result that some of the logic is in the aspx page and some in the code behind. What is in your opinion a better architecture?
Curt: From the sound of it you are running into some of the same circumstances I did. I found that using the pre-build datasources were WAY too much limitation for me. I tend to toss them out right away and switch to a more manual approach. This does make more work (you have to do sorting and paging yourself) but other than that I found it a lot easier to work with.
I used to be a fairly strong believer in the 3 tier approach but have come to the conclusion that for 99% of work that's done you are best off with a simple 2 tier approach. There is no real need to seperate the Business and Data layers. Combining the object definitions with the calls to the database and mixing in the validation from the business perspective all at once seemed the best bet. I still break the pieces out into seperate methods but I've combined them all into one set of classes instead of 2 distinctive ones.
Now, as far as controls go... my rule is simple... if I use it more then once it's a control...if not, then it's coded into the page. I never make a code block into a control unless there is a reason to...otherwise it's extra work for yourself. That said... i was VERY guilty of the opposite. I used to take every Asp.Net control and make a custom control that inherited from the native one. Then I would only use the custom one...just in case some day I wanted to enhance it (I almost never did) so eventually I stopped that nonsense.

Me:What is your opinion on using stored procedures? Some say using stored procedures is oldschool.
Curt: I've really shifted away from it. In the past, with previous versions of MS SQL you really wanted to use them as much as you could for perf reasons, but now that's really not the case. What I've done is actually make all my SQL statements simply constants in my application. They are all in one class file so they are easily found and tweaked when needed. I do parameterize everything though...this is a MUST in my book.

Me: About using the sql queries in your classes.. Are you simply returning datasets from your functions and binding these to your controls? Are you planning on using LinqToSql in your future projects for this? What is your opinion on Linq? I also wonder if you have any idea what is Microsoft's opinion on the issue of not being able to use the datasources for more complex things, because basically that's what they are designed for, to reduce development time. What is your opinion on this. Should Microsoft do something about it?
Curt: I used to use datasources a lot but since vs2005 I discovered Generic.List(of ). This has been my favorite thing. Everything now is bound to a List(Of myObject), hence the custom sorting and paging. I've used LinqToSql in the past to play around but the limitations were too great. My objects are often complex and it didn't really handle them well. The new Entity Framework stuff looks more promising though, and it looks like LinqToSql is already "obsoleted" in the framework anyways.
I don't think these datasources were really meant for anything other than small-midsized applications (complexity wise). They were always meant (in my opinion only of course) to be for those times when you need it fast and easy and you have a one-to-one relationship with your datamodel and application classes.

Me: You also co-edited a book about AJAX? AJAX is an awesome technology. "Javascript that works". I really think I am not using AJAX to it's full potential though. What I am using is the UpdatePanel (which is the best control ever) and the AjaxControlToolKit. That's it. What am I missing here?

Curt: I wouldn't say edited.. but reviewed. It's different, but same basic concept.
Personally, the UpdatePanel is THE heart of Ajax. Beyond that it's all secondary. So, with that I'd say you are actually right on track with what you need for Ajax.

Me: The other book you reviewed was on WPF, right?
What are your thoughts on WPF? Is it gonna take of soon? Is this the end for WinForms?

Curt: I've actually reviewed at least a dozen different books over the last few years.
The WPF one was a while ago but it's just coming out in published copy.
For me WPF is something that's interesting but not something that I will probably ever do much with. Is *it* the end of WinForms... absolutely not. Is it *part* of the begining of the end... sure.

Now...if I was to take a stab at the prediction of development here's what I see.
WinForms and WebForms will both really "die off" and what you'll see come out of the ashes will be a conglomeration of the two. More like a child of the two rather than one taking over the other. The differentiation between two negligable. The user will never really know, or care, where they are opperating. It's not really "cloud" computing (that's just poor PR in my opinion) but rather a melding of the two. With things like Ajax, WPF, WCF and all the other acromyms, we are on the way. I think in the next 2 years you will see some real distinct breakthroughs, especially with hand-held platforms, that will be the hybrid we're after. Take those and extend them to the larger CPU capacity of the home PC and you get some idea of what could be done.

Me: Are you thinking of more Surface like interactivity?
Curt: No really... surface is cool, and definitely part of it. The multiple-input, touch-sensitive piece will definitely find it's place with the new scheme but I don't think we're really gotten at the core of the new stuff yet, it's still on the verge of being discovered (or tucked in a lab somewhere). Think of a meld between the PC, Laptop/Tablet and SmartPhone, but all as one device with all the best features of them all and integrated into a form factor yet to be determined (I have ideas but still to early to say).

Me: I think that's a good line to end this interview! Thank a lot.

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